Debate: Does Paul Give Us the Truth about Jesus? David Wood (Christian) vs. Shabir Ally (Muslim)

Christians believe that the Apostle Paul was one of history’s most faithful men of God. Muslims, however, often claim that Paul was a deceiver who corrupted Christianity. Can an examination of the evidence help us decide who’s right? In this debate, David Wood and Shabir Ally debate the question, “Does Paul give us the truth about Jesus?”

29:47 on this point Shabir makes about Paul’s theology being justification by faith alone. This relies on the Protestant interpretation of Paul. However, the New Persepectives on Paul and Catholic (and I’m pretty sure Orthodox) understanding does not hold this to be so. Therefore, I suspect Shabir is familiar with certain Protestant ideas of sola fide, but not of Catholic and Orthodox and also consideration of the Jewish understanding Paul is coming from. Because, when one is aware of these it’s evident that Paul is not advocating for pure justification by faith alone as if he’s an evangelical protestant (lmao), and therefore he does not contradict James. I recommend Brant Pitre’s work as he does a great job of explaining in the context of second temple Judaism

24:35 further this point of Paul writing of his miracles in his letters. As he is addressing the Corinthians themselves to have witnessed what he describes, had he been lying, this would have been noticed by the Corinthians themselves when the letter was received and read out by them . We know that Paul’s letters were read to the congregations that they address, for examples there are poems in them which might be used as hymes or prayers etc. So, if the contents were false, they would notice this.

Also the point of Paul being the least of the Apostles, Paul’s name is a play on this because it literally means small. This shows his humility because he was Saul, which is a royal name, and then went by Paul after his conversion. Brant Pitre made a great point about this elsewhere.

Islam is simply the first ‘Reformation’ - it uses the same basic argument as later European ‘Protestants’: namely, claiming to know better than the Church herself what the early apostles meant (in Islam’s case, about the Trinity, the death of Christ and his Resurrection).
The audacity and foolishness of it all are breathtaking…
‘Historical’ Revisionism at its finest!
BTW, how many times do they need to have their *sses handed to them before they GIVE UP???

David defeats goliath again!

Paul ministers lawlessness.

Compare Paul’s teachings (1Cor 9:20 & 21 ἄνομος without law) to Jesus’ teachings (Matt 7:21-23 ἀνομία iniquity).

1 Corinthians 9:20 And unto the Jews I became as a Jew, that I might gain the Jews; to them that are under the law, as under the law, that I might gain them that are under the law;
1 Corinthians 9:21 To them that are without law, as without law, (being not without law to God, but under the law to Christ,) that I might gain them that are without law.

(1Cor 9:20 Paul says he became as under the law, but then… 1Cor 9:21 Paul says [he became] without law. Paul uses the Greek word ἄνομος G459 “without law”)

G459 ἄνομος anomos an’-om-os From G1 (as a negative particle) and G3551; lawless, that is, (negatively) not subject to (the Jewish) law; (by implication a Gentile), or (positively) wicked: - without law, lawless, transgressor, unlawful, wicked.

The Greek word Paul uses; ἄνομος (wicked G459), (without law G459), (lawless G459)

Comparing this to the Gospel of Matthew and what Jesus will say to those who work ἀνομία [violation of law G458]

Matthew 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
Matthew 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
Matthew 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

(Matt 7:23 Jesus uses the Greek word ἀνομία G458“iniquity”)

G458 ἀνομία anomia an-om-ee’-ah From G459; illegality, that is, violation of law or (generally) wickedness: - iniquity, X transgress (-ion of) the law, unrighteousness.

The Greek word Jesus uses; ἀνομία G458 (wickedness G458), (transgression of the law G458), (unrighteousness G458)

This Greek word (ἀνομία G458) comes from the same Greek word Paul uses (ἄνομος G459), (wicked G459), (without law G459), (lawless G459)

Matthew 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work [violation of law G458] [without law G459]

(Matt 7:23 Those who work G458/G459 [without law] Jesus says he will tell them to depart from him.)

Now in Matt 7:23 look at the definition of the Greek word “work” G2038.

G2038 ἐργάζομαι ergazomai er-gad’-zom-ahee Middle voice from G2041; to toil (as a task, occupation, etc.), (by implication) effect, be engaged in or with, etc.: - commit, do, labor for, minister about, trade (by), work.

(In other words… in Matt 7:23 those “…that work;” (ἐργάζομαι engage in, or minister) Paul’s teaching to become [without law G459] Jesus said he will tell them to depart from him.)

Matthew 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
Matthew 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
Matthew 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work [minister G2038] iniquity. [violation of law G458]

Paul teachings clearly is contradictory to that of Christ.

Paul says we are no justify by keeping the law, Galatians 2:16.

Jesus says the law is eternal, and we should teach and do it, Mathew 5:17-19.
Crystal clear evidence that Paul’s teachings is contrary to that of Christ.

The book by James D.G. Dunn did not say that:

For the Jewish Christian of the second and Third centuries, Jesus was simply a prophet, James the first sole Leader of the Jerusalem church was the great hero, and Paul, who had transformed the faith by opening the door so wide to the Gentiles Was a renegade and apostate. Such Jewish Christian sects survived for a century or two, but without the vitality of Catholic Christianity or the determined purpose of rabbinic Judaism they slowly withered and died.

But his conclusion is different.

the new testament :
John & Revelation in the Bible,
pray & read carefully to see the truth

John the new testament

the revelation from JESUS CHRIST, which GOD gave him to show HIS servants what must soon take place.

JESUS made it known by sending HIS angel to his servant John, who testifies to everything he saw—
that is, the WORD OF GOD and
the testimony of JESUS CHRIST.

blessed is the one who reads aloud the words of this prophecy,
and blessed are those who hear it
and take to heart what is written in because the time is near

JESUS CHRIST, who is the faithful Witness,
the Firstborn from the dead, and
the Ruler of the kings of the earth.

to JESUS who loves us and
has freed us from our sins by HIS blood,
and has made us to be a kingdom and priests
to serve GOD and FATHER—
to JESUS be glory and power for ever and ever!

“Look, JESUS is coming with the clouds,
“every eye will see JESUS ,
even those who pierced HIM”;
and all peoples on earth will mourn because of HIM
So shall it be!

JESUS said to you :

“I AM the ALPHA and the OMEGA, says the LORD GOD ,
“Who is, and Who was, and Who is to come,

DaVID wood reminder… The agenda of Islam to destroyed the Bible… our agenda to defend the Bible and to destroyed the WORKs of the DEVIL…

Haha truly shabir very good in finding fault from the Bible… some issue about peter and Paul argument in book of acts… Islam study very hard and even compared with other author of commentary . So sad Islam are TRAIN to destroyed. The BIBLE… one of Satan tactics… that is why even JESUS own neighbor don’t Believe in JESUS…

Islamic apologists are terrible hypocrites. How else do they justify their believe that Allah preserved the Qur’an? Why would He do that? Because the Qur’an is his word? Then they agree that the bible was once God’s word sent by Him to guide humanity, but then God couldn’t preserve the bible for all that? Either they do not believe what they say about the bible or the Qur’an or their trust in God’s protective powers or they are just being dishonest. It’s a stupid argument and they should be ashamed of it.

Hi Shabir, a debate should be based on facts not speculation. You should never suggest that Paul may have received his message about Jesus from a false and deceptive source; you should say categorically whether you think he did or not. If you think he did, then you need to show evidence that Paul’s teachings were contradictory to the teachings of other biblical writers and Christian principles in general. Failing this, your argument fails and we are left with no option other than that Paul’s conversion to Christianity was authentic and that his teachings were the same as those of Jesus and his other followers. Again, you must rebut Wood’s statement that Paul was a man of extraordinary scholarship who would have been discerning and critically perceptive enough to recognize teachings that differed from those of other followers of Jesus contemporary to him. Again, historians and Christian and Jewish scholars all attest to the fact that Paul was an honest and forthright person, so that he would have acknowledged and corrected any revelation that he had which differed from the teachings and beliefs of Jesus’ followers of his day.

I have tremendous respect for Shabir Ally, but I am left wondering if he considered the import of his statements here. If Jews wanting to stone Paul for making Jesus God makes Paul a false prophet, then the Jews wanting to stone Jesus for the same reason should make him a false prophet. But Islam - which Shabir defends - holds that Jesus is a true prophet. Didn’t Shabir therefore contradict himself here?

David trying to prove Paul teachings by quoting Paul’s teachings :man_shrugging:? I believe in Jesus son of the living God.
I believe the teachings of original 12 Apostles, last appointed apostle Mathias making Paul the “13th” :eyes: and self appointed.

Idol worship u hate we got a real god u used the sword go back to own country u can’t go hm we don’t believe that fake u been busted all yr lies have been expose ok go hm so u can get what they do to other there take that shit back to that stupid shit U look old an tired fr Satan who u follow u told yr child that lie she didn’t really believe remember now every one watch thouse video that why people leaving that shit they can’t white to get away fr them demon just like u if u go over there off with yr head ok ever Christin have told u same thing Call c.p he said he was going to make sure u never be an imon an he right he destroyed u an yr fake u can’t hide no more bring those lies to a Christian county …we don’t want u or your here

Shabbier is making his living out of his stupidity.His ass will be fried in hell for rejecting a true god jesus.

Shaiber, shaiber, shaiber, shaiber, shaiber, and all his disciples do a face-off with CP…and will see who will have the last laugh.

I’ve watched the whole debate…the comments being on a christian’s channel does not reflect at all the strong refutations given by Shabir and how David despite speaking fluently his argument was very weak and depending on light mockery to fill the gaps in his stance…Shabir spoke really well and respectfully…he was very prepared and made very sound argument against all David’s claims that actually made sense…David didnt reply to any of the accusations to Paul but rather jumps to other random points and re-iterated himself…The contradictions of paul’s teaching and the Law are crystal clear if you compare text to text…no one with eyes can deny that…something is definitely not right there. You either follow the Law of God or follow Paul. You cant do both.

scholars scholars and scholars that’s all i hear, can the smartest man in world ever make a mistake yes he can