Making Sense of the Old Testament God (Paul Copan)

Is the God of the Old Testament nothing but a bully, a murderer, and an oppressor? Many today—even within the church—seem to think so. How are Christians to respond to such accusations? And how are we to reconcile the seemingly disconnected natures of God portrayed in the two testaments?

In his lecture “Making Sense of the Old Testament God,” Christian apologist Paul Copan addresses some of the common criticisms of the God of the Bible.

Tks… David

Repent of your sins and believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, believe in your heart that He has died for sins and rose from the tomb on the third day and let the Holy Spirit within you, and you shall be saved. Amen

Now if only I could memorize this whole thing for when I need it. This was a remarkably communicated video.

You are picking passages in the Bible as you would like that support your argument. It would be nice to also show all the passages that go against your arguments if you want anybody to believe you. Are there none - I beg to differ ?

Paul Copan is a blessing to the body of Christ, may the Lord bless him abundantly.

to put it in a nut shell,the old
testament is about human nature.
the new testament is about
Godly nature.

Looks like a good listen. Satan works hard at creating a false sense of victimhood and virtue signalling for the child sacrificing and greatly immoral Canaanites and other peoples in the Old Testament. I once was fooled by this before I embraced the grace and the truth of God.

76 thumbs down=wrong perspective
of God

Lol the Bible justifies slavery. End of the story. Supporting the Christian god is immoral.

Thank you, I do need this, im not very good with apologetics. But I must be ready to answer to anyone who asks the reason for my faith.:slightly_smiling_face:

Came to know about Paul Copan from another channel called “The Bible Project”, and I’m so glad that I found him, it was a move of God, thanks David for posting this video.

If you believe in the bible and its teachings to be true, then a logical conclusion is that there is no free will at all…
a person is born, grows and is given options by life or you´d rather say by God, the choices that person takes and the options he is given are prearranged because God Is All-Knowing , He Is All Powerful, He Is Always Everywhere. so he knows the person´s feelings and inclinations, his weaknesses and virtues, his defects, vices, and addictions and he knows perfectly well what is inside him or her, just as he knows the choices that are going to be given to that particular person at any given time, and he already knows what that person is going to choose.
so God is like a croupier who deals the cards knowing every single time exactly the game of every player, knowing what they are going to do with their cards in advance and then He decides on the fate of every player!! he assigns hell and heaven, dead and life, reward and punishment pretending that the person had a real choice!! so you see, either God exists and is a maquiavelic, sadistic and perverse, maniac puppetieer who plays for his own pleasure with his creatures as a child would with his dolls and toys.
or there is no God and all atheists are right and so are scientist about the Big Bang, evolution etc, etc.
there is still a 3rd option, there is a “God” or many “Gods” that are none of the “omni such and such words” extremely powerful beings but not perfect, not all knowing, he didn´t create the universe nor life, he might have has some influence in evolution or certain developments in certain areas of the universo or life or civilization, he doesn´t care at all about our doings, he doesn´t give heaven nor hell because those silly things don´t exist and he doesn´t give a sh¨¨ about our morals and lifes, and we actually don´t owe IT anything. you might call them extraterrestial, more advanced and evolved beings and eventually in a long and very far away in time we would join them thanks to science and perfecting ourselves as sentient beings!

“Altar now built from acacia wood…an alteration” :rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:

“In-dentured” slave :rofl::rofl:

Was the covenant renewed? Of course it was or the entire Bible is a falsehood full of contradictions and error.

Jeremiah 31:31-33. The Torah is the new (Renewed) covenant.

Chadash (New) Strongs number H2319 is word origin 2318 - “Renewed”

The covenant was new to us, not the Messiah.

Confirmed in Hebrew 8:8-10

“The word Olam (Forever) translated and then contrasted against the heretical dispensationalism conceived by John Darby:

// A topic hardly exposed \

The hyper-grace (Christian / Protestant movement) is gleaning billions of dollars from Yahweh’s (The lord God’s) Storehouses using this very faulty interpretive “doctrine/ of men”.

It contradicts “Circular” Eternal Hebraic thought that our God uses and rather, uses linear Greek thought. The following Scriptures and many others from Genesis to Revelation are false according to the twisted theology of dispensationalism:

““If these laws vanish from before Me,” declares יהוה, “then the seed of Yisra’ĕl shall also cease from being a nation before Me forever.” Thus said יהוה, “If the heavens above could be measured, and the foundations of the earth searched out beneath, I would also cast off all the seed of Yisra’ĕl for all that they have done,” declares יהוה. “See, the days are coming,” declares יהוה, “that the city shall be built for יהוה from the Tower of Ḥanan’ĕl to the Corner Gate. “And the measuring line shall again extend straight ahead to the hill Garĕḇ, then it shall turn toward Go‛ah. “And all the valley of the dead bodies and of the ashes, and all the fields as far as the wadi Qiḏron, to the corner of the Horse Gate toward the east, is to be set-apart to יהוה. It shall not be plucked up or thrown down any more forever.””
‭‭Yirmeyahu (Jeremiah)‬ ‭31:36-40‬

‭“"Ěl (Yahweh the God of Isra’el) is not a man, to lie; nor a son of man, to repent! Has He said, and would He not do it; or spoken, and would not confirm it? “See, I have received, to bless. And He has blessed, and I do not reverse it. “He has not looked upon wickedness in Ya‛aqoḇ, nor has He seen trouble in Yisra’ĕl. יהוה his Elohim is with him, and the shout of a Sovereign is in him.”
‭‭Bemiḏbar (Numbers)‬ ‭23:19-21‬ ‭

“Do not add to the Word which I command you, and do not take away from it,a so as to guard the commands of Yahweh your Elohim (God) which I am commanding you.
Deuteronomy 4:2

Proverbs 30:6
Do not add to His Words,b Lest He reprove you, and you be found a liar. Footnote: b Deuteronomy 4:2 and 12:32, Revelation 22:18-19.

Revelation 22:18-19
“For I witness to everyone hearing the words of the prophecy of this book: If anyone adds to them, Elohim shall add to him the plagues that are written in this book,
and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, Elohim shall take away his part from the Book of Life, and out of the set-apart city, which are written in this Book. Footnote: fSome manuscripts read ‘tree of life’.”

These “theological” enterprises are all too common within the Body of Messiah. These said monies are supplanted into futile allocations of motley pagan vanities & futilities.

(Many who claim to be educated in Scripture are “fronting”.)

The twisted sin-justifying doctrines spun by these supposed leaders and their hypocritical “ways” that few can see consequently teach that Yahweh Eloheinu (the Lord/Adonai/Ha’Shem…our God) “changed His mind about the commands” using " ages of progressive change".

Yet Yahweh clearly states…“I am YHWH who changes not”…hence His name "The I Am (Existent One).”

There is no such thing as "changing ages and stages of progressive dispensation” in Scripture. Truly that is heresy!

RESTORATION…YES!!

Scripture is not 'Old’ versus Renewed (New) nor ‘Grace’ versus Torah (LAW)’.

Not without serious twisting of the Apostles Paul’s letters and other Scriptures.
2 Peter 3:14-18

In Messiah and Truth,

Brother Yahuchanan (John)
:menorah:יהוחנן :menorah:

The word Christian Χριστιανός
is of Greek origin and mentioned only three times in the Torah (Bible) as follows: (two mentions are meant to be derogatory and the other was originally spoken in the Hebrew language, by the way).

Acts 11:26 and also verse 28.
The 3rd mention is in First Peter 4:16

The mention by Kepha (Peter) was originally spoken in Hebrew and is משיחי transliterated as Mashiach (Messianic (anointed)).

In Acts, both mentions are of a derogatory nature and spoken by gentiles (atheists) in the pagan infested region of Antioch.

To confirm the point, Paul said this:
Ephesians 2:11-12: “Therefore remember that you, once gentiles (nations of the world) [see also Galatians 3:28 & Romans 12:2] in the flesh, who are called ‘the uncircumcision’ by what is called ‘the circumcision’ made in the flesh by hands, that at that time you were without Messiah, excluded from the citizenship of Yisra’ĕl and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no expectation and without Elohim (God) in the world.”

We do not have a standardized Hebrew text; however, based on sound Hebrew Scholarship (such as that of brother Franz Delitzsch) who utilized good contextual cross referencing, proper Hebrew-Semitic erudition and his sturdy knowledge of the Masoretic texts coupled with his knowledge of the Textus Receptus, this translation of “Messianic” does accurately fit, for what it is worth to you – if anything.

The term “Christian” is a man made traditional catch phrase, to be bluntly honest and truthful.

.
Furthermore; the term “Christian” was never ever used by the Messiah to describe (in anyway) who his chosen people (followers) are. Not once will you find Yahshua addressing his followers as ״Christians” in the gospel accounts. Nor did the Apostle Paul ever use this term even once to address the Body of Messiah. There is a reason why.

Acts 24:14 “And this I confess to you, that according to the Way which they call a sect, so I worship the Elohim (God) of my fathers, [Exodus 3:15] believing all that has been written in the Torah and in the Prophets,

Nor did Paul disqualify Torah observance for the gentiles who were learning who they truly were in Messiah. But like so many “wolves” in sheep’s clothing do, they have beguiled many in the Body of Messiah and said something entirely contrary to what Yahushua the Messiah taught. A half truth and twist, if you will. 2nd Kepha 3:16 confirms this fact.

Who are we?

“And He answering, said, “I was not sent except to the lost sheep of the house of Yisra’ěl.”
Matthew 15:24

Yahshua said this in Mark 7:7 echoing the sentiments of the prophets that proclaimed his truths centuries prior: “And in vain do they worship Me, teaching as teachings the commands of men”. This saying of our Master is often used by those in the body of Messiah that cling in one way or another to replacement theology and dispensationalism. They often use it to refute Judaism. But true Judaism is Restorative and Messianic. Not Orthodox, not ultra-Orthodox, not reformed and does not declare a “One House” Theology like that of our brothers and sisters in the Messianic Jewish Alliances.

Though restorative Messianic Judaism can be arbitrarily labeled as “Two House”, it certainly should not be confused with any varying and motley viewpoints of those in the Hebrew Roots movement and Sacred Namer movements. AND CERTAINLY THERE IS LITTLE IF ANY COMPARISON TO BE MADE WITH THE CULTIC WAY OF THE BLACk HEBREW ISRAELITES.

See also Isaiah 29:13; 2nd Kings 17:19 and Matthew 15:3-9

Adolph Hitler (May his name be forever cursed) was among the men credited for saying this the following statement that he so wickedly utilized in his depraved methodologies: “If you tell a big enough lie and tell it frequently enough, it will be believed.”

But I digress.

“There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free man, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Messiah Yahshua.”
Galatians 3:28

Man segregates, even in the Body of Messiah there are over 40,000 divided groups (denominations), but In Yahweh’s eyes, he sees one people despite the infighting and bickering among his people. Imagine how that grieves our God!

We should be one people with one message.

Shalom

“Do your utmost to present yourself approved to Elohim (God), a worker who does not need to be ashamed, rightly handling the Word of Truth.”
Amĕin!

2nd Timothy 2:15

The Messiah never taught Christianity. He taught Messianic Judaism which is Keeping the Commandments of Yahweh (The Lord God); and in this approach, through the course of History we have many Scriptural customs.

They do not supersede commandment like the Orthodox Jews have a habit of doing, but actually are a part of our heritage.

Our lost family that often persecutes us and often falsely calls us Judaizers are not Torah observant by grace through faith.

“but displaying grace to the thousandth generation of those who love me and obey my mitzvot (commands). ג”
‭‭D’varim (Deuteronomy)‬ ‭5:10‬

Yahweh has one people and not two like dispensationalism oddly teaches.

He is regathering then now.

Matthew 15:24: "And He answering, said, “I was not sent except to the lost sheep of the house of Yisra’ĕl.”

The gentiles (nations, pagan heathens and unbelievers) are largely lost Israelis that need to repent. There were two Kingdoms of Israel that and originally one. The north and the south. The south is known today as the House of Judah (Jews) and occupies the land of Israel.

The north is known as the House of Usrael (Ezekiel 34:17) and is being regathered through the Good news or (Gospel) which is the Essence (Besorah) of Torah…The Bible, as many calm the Truth (Torah Psalms 119:142).

The Gentile Christians (as they like to be called), are actually no longer gentiles!

Ephesians 2:11 Therefore remember that you, once nationsc in the flesh, who are called ‘the uncircumcision’ by what is called ‘the circumcision’ made in the flesh by hands, Footnote: cSee 1Co 12:2.
Eph 2:12 that at that time you were without Messiah, excluded from the citizenship of Yisra’ěl and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no expectation and without Elohim in the world.
Eph 2:13 But now in Messiah יהושע (Yahushua) you who once were far off have been brought near by the blood of the Messiah.

Acts 24:14: ““And this I confess to you, that according to the Way which they call a sect, so I worship the Elohim (God) of my fathers, believing all that has been written in the Torah and in the Prophets,”

The “Church” does not adhere to the Covenant but rather believes falsely that the Covenant was replaced. They do not understand that the Covenant was renewed and when the Messiah said I give you a new Covenant that He was saying it is NEW to you, not me. Malachi 3:6, Jeremiah 31:31-33, Hebrews 8:8-10.

They also believe the First Covenant is OLD and not to be lived by, but no where did the Messiah Yahshua ever say that, quite the contrary!!

Matthew 4:4 (Luke 4:4) But He answering, said, “It has been written, ‘Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that comes from the mouth of יהוה (Yahweh)” Quoting Deuteronomy 8:3.

They often will argue vehemently to defend their brand of Salvation and although I am not saying they are not redeemed I do believe that many will not be ready when our Master returns a second time.

I base this belief solely on the teachings of Yahshua that taught only Torah (Law). The same Torah the Church teaches dogmatically is not to be lived by.

I do hope that helps you.

I would suggest you seek Yahweh and fully submit to Him. Honor Him with all of your heart and He will certainly direct you!

Peace to you and Shalom (Good bye).

That was Beautiful, specially the end, thank you :blush:

The hijacked plane example is dubious. The whole thrust of the Christian revelation is to undo the legitimacy of political expediency as a moral justification for violence. What a political calculation may demand, the spirit would rather endure, shifting the tragedy totally onto the culprits of initial violence.

“Turn the other cheek (and offer it also to be struck)” is the shift toward a new genre of tragedy: martyrdom in the spirit of the Crucified One. The only political aspect of this radical change is that, paradoxically, the martyrdom of the innocents, perhaps even more numerous than otherwise, may expose the futility of the original violence and effect a metanoia, a change of heart, in the perpetrators and witnesses. The success of Christianity, subduing ancient Rome by the spectacle of the self-giving martyr in the gladiatorial arena, is testament to the paradoxical expediency of this revealed truth.

The seduction of expediency traps us back into the satanic cycle of violence. Jesus’ teachings and willing death stands diametrically opposed to the High Priest Caïaphas’ calculation, “better that one man die, than a whole nation perish,” a logic exposed by the Cross as the very falsehood at the origin of all post-Fall human culture. The Crucified One ushers in is a new order, a new creation as it destroys the old one. Thus it is written that Satan himself is nailed to the cross and exposed.

St Paul teaches that the Old Testament must now be read with the revelation of the crucified Lamb of God in mind. Rene Girard shows also, that the violence of the Old Testament is often the admixture of the archaic understanding of a wrathful, violent God with the new understanding slowly breaking through, that God is Love and that love is the laying down of one’s own life for others, not the taking of others’ lives to maintain the old, sacred-satanic order.