Critics of the doctrine of the Trinity often claim that the theology of the Old Testament is inconsistent with orthodox Christian theology. However, a closer look at the Torah and the writings of the prophets shows that that there is a clear plurality within the nature of the God revealed in the Old Testament. Does a careful reading of pre-Christian scriptures contradict the Trinitarian theology of the New Testament? Anthony Rogers discusses the issue.
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I combined both of Anthony’s lectures into one video! But Anthony has much more material on this topic. If you’d like more, let us know and we can put together a series.
The Torah clearly states that to establish a matter you need two or three witnesses. There is a creation so there must be 3 Gods. The witnesses must be of equal status so there is not one God but the oneness of the Gods. Got Torah Got Truth
Show me the word trinity in the holy scriptures…anywhere. Did not does not and never will exist.
So Jesus is God? Yes. But the Holy Spirit is God? Yes. Is God still one God? Yes. How can he be all three but only one? He’s God. He can do what he wants.
Trinity is every human. No human is seen, either his or her mind but only his or her body.
This Triune, human to the world by two, father and mother.
If one not TRIUNE, cannot become a parent.
Our FATHER in heaven is TRIUNE to become the FATHER every human.
HIS LIFE (I am the LIFE) in you leads to HIS SPIRIT is a child.
GOD rules from his throne.
HE made the earth and the heavens and ALL the hosts of them .
Angels are the arms of the LORD .
The Angels speak for GOD , as GOD , in the authority of GOD .
Genesis 16:10 (KJV)
And the angel of the LORD said unto her, I will multiply thy seed exceedingly, that it shall not be numbered for multitude.
Genesis 22:11 (KJV)
And the angel of the LORD called unto him out of heaven, and said, Abraham, Abraham: and he said, Here [am] I.
Numbers 22:35 (KJV)
And the angel of the LORD said unto Balaam, Go with the men: but only the word that I shall speak unto thee, that thou shalt speak. So Balaam went with the princes of Balak.
Many many many times the Bible says it this way .
The Angels speak for GOD , as GOD , in the authority of GOD .
One GOD and ONE GOD only .
Go beyond that , you break the first commandment .
Dr. Michael S. Heiser presents much material supporting the Trinity in the Old Testament, he also shows how Old Testament Rabbi’s saw 2 Messiah’s coming. One Spiritual to save Souls, the Second a Fighter to end evil in this world.
Christianity sees this as Jesus Return, Second Coming.
0.3∞ + 0.3∞ + 0.3∞ = 1 + ∞
Awesome teaching … so helpful
At 1:05:55, Rogers points out that God calls Himself God, as if that means that God is talking about someone else. Has he noticed in the New Testament, his Messiah called himself “the son” or “the son of man”, etc.? He didn’t say “I” or “me”, but he called himself by a title which is like talking about himself in the third person (he). No one is saying that he was talking about another person who was the “son of man.”
It’s ridiculous. They did not understand that the HOLY SPIRIT is THE FATHER IN THE SPIRIT FORM, that is, NO THIRD divine person exists.
Jesus states “(1) God is (2) a spirit”. Well, Jesus simply calls Him sometimes (1) “Father”, sometimes (2) “Spirit” (Holy) depending on the situation, but in both cases you have the SAME ONE GOD, not TWO different Divine Persons!
EVIDENCE of that can be obtained by checking out who is INSIDE JESUS:
ONLY THE FATHER is inside Jesus to help him, “I am in the Father and the FATHER IN ME”. Neither A. the “Lord who gives life” (a nonexisting Lord) nor B. the Paraclete IS THERE, He will be sent after Jesus’ death! The only one with Jesus is the FATHER, thus He must be THE HOLY SPIRIT INSIDE JESUS!
The Paraclete is NOT the Holy Spirit! Jn. 14:26 has been simply tampered with by a trinitarian supporter who “was short of Gods” and decided to “upgrade” the unknown Paraclete.
I love this man, very patient on his teaching too bad he sees the Bible in a calvinistic Doctrine. but this is great teaching on our Triune God:clap:t2: God bless u brother Rogers
‘Orthodox christianity’ is a contadiction! First there was just Christianity, then in the 3/4th century a complete capitulation to the roman empire by a group of self seeking ‘bishops’ who argued for decades about the trinity! It was murderous Constantine who finally influenced the arguing rabble to adopt this unscriptural doctrine along with many other dogmas! all unchristian & false!
If the whole of the Jewish, hebrew faith is summed up in one statement repeated throughout the OT " The Lord your God is ONE God, and you must have no other Gods before me." Why Oh why is it never mentioned there is One God, but he is three persons’? Not once? Even that talmud & Kabalah which deviated from the Torah says NOTHING about the trinity. these are all manmade!
When an ‘angel of the Lord’ speaks and says ‘I am the Lord your God’ logically that angel is not God! He is merely a messenger OF God ( hebrew malakh =messanger). He speaks on Gods behalf. God dwells in heavan yet says '“And YHWH proceeded to go down to see the city” ( babel), Gen 11;5). Obviously the Almighty didnt need to travel personally to earth. He sent his angel. Thus since angels are ‘messangers’ and represent God when they speak or act, they do it on behalf of God. To suggest any angel doing Gods will, is God in person is incorrect. This arguement is a pathetic attempt to try and substantiate the false trinity doctrine!
First of all, the title is wrong. If the Trinity is found in the Old Testament then why did they not name it the “Trinity.” A name-less Triune God throughout the Old covenant does nothing to prove it.
Its one thing to claim the NT teaches the trinity, but to then sate the OT does is totally wrong! All trinitarians can do is to look for any OT text that uses 3. Eg the ‘three men who visited abraham’ ( Gen 18:2 ) Is this 'proof of the trinity? Of course not, any more than the TWO angels that rescued Lot fro Sodom prove that ‘God is Duelity’!. People search retrospectively through the pages of the entire bible hoping to find conformation for a dogma that wasnt formulated for over 300 years AFTER the bible was completed. Throughout its pages it shouts loud and clear to us . Exd 8:10 “There is no one else but me” ( this rules out ‘One God in three persons’ because a person is ‘one else’ ( Ie; 'No one else can do this, e.t.c meaning no other person,). Jesus also quoted from the Torah that ‘God was One’ ( no distinguishing from ‘God’ or ‘Person’, Just ONE. Never three persons! Nothing was ever mentioned either by Jesus, the apostles or even the early church fathers re; trinity. Not till 280AD!
The Father alone is God. Jesus is the Christ. Jesus is a promised Messiah, a man with Gods Spirit. The Church is still foundationally Catholic. The New Testament teaches God is the Father who is in Jesus not a trinity Spirit (John 14:7-10, Colossians 1:19).